Not related, just reminded:
(I haven’t read the book in question, but it reminded me of something from my last batch of copy-edits.)
In the original draft of DEMON BOUND, Jake has this line (talking to Drifter about Alice’s husband):
Husband? More like a cocksucking crybaby.
Copy edits came back and it looked like this:
Husband? More like a
cocksuckingbig crybaby.
With a note that said: Might be read as homophobic.
And I was like, what? Because to me, it’s always been a stronger version of “asshole” or “bitch” (and gender-unspecific). So I thought about changing it back … then decided, okay, I won’t. Anyone who has followed Jake’s character probably knows he’s not homophobic, but if it can be read that way, why introduce the issue?*
But “big” was not going to work. It wasn’t angry enough. So it became:
Husband? More like a
cocksuckingbigfucking crybaby.
*If Jake was saying this directly to Alice’s husband, and Jake knew that Alice’s husband would be additionally insulted by the suggestion that he is gay (Alice’s husband would have been), then it’d probably have stayed as originally written. (Of course, that is only after I learned it could be read as homophobic; before then, this option would never have occurred to me, either.)
It all comes down to character and context for me. In this case, “cocksucking” didn’t do anything that “fucking” couldn’t, and might have suggested more than I intended. But if the circumstances were right, there is no word I wouldn’t let my characters use.
After all that, I read SALVATION IN DEATH and noticed Roarke calling someone a cocksucker (or it was used as an adjective; I can’t remember exactly — I just remember laughing when I read it.) But again — I can’t see Roarke as homophobic, so I’ve never read it from him that way, either. I still don’t, but I understand that someone with a different experience might, and think of Roarke differently because of it.
That, of course, is out of anyone but the reader’s hands. I wouldn’t expect Robb to write Roarke differently now that I am more aware of it, any more than I’d expect a book called COCKSUCKER IN DEATH.
…I’d still buy it.
I just finished an erotic ebook where the heroine calls the hero a cocksucker in the middle of sex because he won’t let her come. I don’t think she is thinking he is gay when she said that.
Funny how the word “fuck” is okay, but you put the word “cock” and “suck” together, it brings out all types of different meanings.
I think the concern was not that Jake would be saying the husband was gay — but as an insult, where “gay” is the insult. Like it’s equivalent to calling him a f*gg*t. (See, that word is offensive to me, even though cocksucker isn’t. Because there’s only one meaning for f*gg*t, no matter how many sticks are mentioned — cocksucker, IMO, is different according to who says it/how it is said.)
The example you give is the same: it’s like calling someone a motherfucker (but the reference isn’t literal — you don’t actually mean that someone is fucking their mother, any more than a cocksucker is always literal.) Again, context and character.
With that knowledge, it doesn’t mean that none of my characters will never call someone a cocksucker, but I’ll be mindful of what they would know of the word and how they would use it, and so on. If they use it, maybe they wouldn’t know it could be a slur — I think Jake would, though, so it doesn’t work for him to use it.
One thing is for sure — I’ll never be able to read it again the way I used to: as just a “fucker”. I’ll notice it every single time, and have to decide how the character is using it, and what it says about the character. Grr.
I find the work “cock” to be harsh just like “prick” or the nasty “C” word for a woman’s anatomy. See, I can’t even find myself to write it here. It is funny how certain words have different meanings to people.
We have such potty mouths. lol
It’s interesting, isn’t it, how as readers we bring so much to the text? And how many different things even one reader can bring to the text–because depending on the writing, the same term or phrase would hit each person differently.
katie, I’m with you on c**t but interestingly the other two don’t bother me at all. Heh.
I would so buy Cocksucker In Death. The plot should be interesting
.
Off topic, heh, HAPPY NEW YEAR, MELJEAN! Looking forward to your new book!
All I can think of (sooo damn tired) is that cocksucker isn’t necessarily gender based. Guys OR gals can be cocksuckers if you wanna get really picky.
I know, I know, it’s usually relegated to a guy, but c’mon. I now vow to call a girlfriend a gal a cocksucker. Well, maybe not, but think it instead? Yeah, I’m a big fucking crybaby coward.
Oops meant say I would now call a gal or a girlfriend (in jest of course) a cocksucker. Oh hell, it’s fucking 12:30. No wonder teh words are getting all fuck-ed up-ed.